Bye bye Europe

kiffa

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Britain was invaded by the French in 1797 with the only fighting taking place at the Battle of Fishguard
I thort the immigrunts were invading us all da time mun
 

Boo

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A great many voted for sunlight uplands, they're not getting that are they?
Brexit was never a panacea in itself. If you think is leavers believed the moment we left everything would be wonderful thats absurd. Its the start of the journey, not the destination.
 

Boo

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The new message thumbnail :hehe:
 

Eat Y'self Fitter

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If you think is leavers believed the moment we left everything would be wonderful thats absurd.
We were told that and a great many believed it.

My gran is annoyed that we're not spending £350m a week on the NHS.
 

Boo

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We were told that and a great many believed it.

My gran is annoyed that we're not spending £350m a week on the NHS.
There were lies on both sides of the argument. Do you think if we stayed in, everything would suddenly be wonderful again? I suspect not, it never was so why would it become so.

Remainers seem to be lining up to play the "see, I told it would be awful card" when the reality is things will take a long time to change. Some impacts will be negative, some positive.
 

kiffa

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There were lies on both sides of the argument. Do you think if we stayed in, everything would suddenly be wonderful again? I suspect not, it never was so why would it become so.

Remainers seem to be lining up to play the "see, I told it would be awful card" when the reality is things will take a long time to change. Some impacts will be negative, some positive.
Here we go then

List the quantifiable positives for us
 

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Nobody can comprehensively list positives and negatives at the moment. Some may point out a few negatives, other's may point out a few positives, but both sides are only going on how they currently see it.

Only time is going to tell us the true reality, and that will easily take another 25 years. Stamping one's feet isn't going to speed up that process, as much as the I am right you were were wrong brigade try
 

PlumberAde

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There were lies on both sides of the argument. Do you think if we stayed in, everything would suddenly be wonderful again? I suspect not, it never was so why would it become so.
If we stayed in, here's what would have happened.

The pound would be about $1.50.
Farage wouldn't have made a fortune on selling the pound after making strategic announcements about the referendum result (remember, he conceded defeat at 10:04pm)
1602962581946.png


Racists and far right people (and I ain't saying all leavers are far right or racist) wouldn't have felt justified to tell Polish people to eff off home.
The UK wouldn't have wasted billions, more than it ever spent on contrbutions, on trying to achieve Brexit
Britain would still be 4th biggest economy in the world.
Lots of people would still have retained their jobs, some will not be living in fear of losing their jobs in 2021
We wouldn't be inundated with Turks and Albanians (they still can't join).

I'm not saying everything would be great, but they wouldn't be anywhere as bad as they are at the moment - and that is without Covid. I am really interested in what you think the destination is. If we are to trade with the EU we would still have to abide by their standards anyway. And we have said that we would carry on with most of the rules anyway. I still don't get what the benefits will be in 20 years time, I hope there are loads but the likes of Johnson and Cummings and Gove will be long gone by then.

I hope I am wrong and you are right, but we've been sold a pup.
 

QuantumMechanic

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I don't think we have been sold a pup.

The issue is the creeping homogenisation EU want. That's the consequence of Maastricht - and I fully blame Major for not putting that to the people via referendum. Yes there was an election but given the only electable parties were going to push Maastricht through, there was no choice.

Trading block as it was, no major issues there. It's the fact the scope completely changed with Maastricht causing EU to be created.

The intransigence we've seen from the EU side is the prime example of why we needed to leave. It's as if EU officials believe the EU project is the only important thing and the views of others not buying into it are to be ignored. We've seen trade deals negotiated by EU taking ages due to trying to find a common approach representing (now) 27 nations - and one of those deals was held up as a smal Belgian region objected.

We've seen this week - and not reported by Guardian et al - the French, German and Spanish equivalents of our CBI all urging EU to persue a deal. They recognise what people don't want to see, which is that EU don't want a deal. They'd rather seek to punish UK for daring to leave. EU refused to conduct talks in parallel, an absolute absurd approach given the scope and nature of deals needing to be done to go forward. Few seem to want to question why EU chose an approach designed to crawl as slow as possible.

The problem for me is that everybody recognises there are faults in EU which needs reform, those within power in EU don't want to reform for obvious reasons.
 

lardy

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Nobody can comprehensively list positives and negatives at the moment. Some may point out a few negatives, other's may point out a few positives, but both sides are only going on how they currently see it.

Only time is going to tell us the true reality, and that will easily take another 25 years. Stamping one's feet isn't going to speed up that process, as much as the I am right you were were wrong brigade try
Rees-Mogg in a C4 interview:


Rees-Mogg: “We will know at some point, of course we will. But it’s a question of timescale.”
Guru-Murthy: “So how long have you got?”
Rees-Mogg: “We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time, we really won’t.”
Guru-Murthy: “Of course not, but I mean we’ll have an indication. We’ll know if there’s been chaos, we’ll know if there have been job losses.”
Rees-Mogg: “The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.”
Which I found interesting, as the UK had only been part of the EU for 40 years.
 

Boo

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Here we go then

List the quantifiable positives for us
I have previously stated a number of times on here why I voted as I did. And I haven't seen anything to change my position. I would vote leave again today.

I don't see any point in re-opening the debate on the merit as its done and dusted. My comments on here were in response to the "told you it would be shit" type posts when its just not possible to tell yet if we as a country made the right or wrong decision. Hell, we aint even left yet.
 

TH63

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Hell, we aint even left yet.
Technically we left in January. We’re currently in a transition period which ends next January.
 

Boo

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Technically we left in January. We’re currently in a transition period which ends next January.
You can argue that point both ways but my point stands. Its impossible to come to any conclusions yet. There will be down sides and up sides (as there would have been if we had remained in). To start throwing brickbats against Leavers is pointless until this thing unfolds. There never was going to be an instant change either way. I voted Leave for the long term benefit, not short term reasons.
 

TH63

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You can argue that point both ways but my point stands. Its impossible to come to any conclusions yet. There will be down sides and up sides (as there would have been if we had remained in). To start throwing brickbats against Leavers is pointless until this thing unfolds. There never was going to be an instant change either way. I voted Leave for the long term benefit, not short term reasons.
Sorry, but no you can’t. We’ve left.

And Jacob Rees Mogg is on the record as saying we won’t see any benefits (to anyone but himself) for fifty years.
So in my case, and I suspect for many of us, never.
 

kiffa

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I have previously stated a number of times on here why I voted as I did. And I haven't seen anything to change my position. I would vote leave again today.

I don't see any point in re-opening the debate on the merit as its done and dusted. My comments on here were in response to the "told you it would be shit" type posts when its just not possible to tell yet if we as a country made the right or wrong decision. Hell, we aint even left yet.
What people are doing is pointing out that some leave voters, maybe not yourself, some farmers for instance, can have little right to complain about anything negatively affecting them post brexit

Unfortunately, they literally we told it would be this way.

If they were all about the long term, they can shut their mouths about shit things happening now
 

Boo

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Sorry, but no you can’t. We’ve left.

And Jacob Rees Mogg is on the record as saying we won’t see any benefits (to anyone but himself) for fifty years.
So in my case, and I suspect for many of us, never.
Ah well, why didnt you say earlier? If Jacob Rees Mogg said it, it must be true
 

Nugent

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If we stayed in, here's what would have happened.

The pound would be about $1.50.
Farage wouldn't have made a fortune on selling the pound after making strategic announcements about the referendum result (remember, he conceded defeat at 10:04pm)
1602962581946.png


Racists and far right people (and I ain't saying all leavers are far right or racist) wouldn't have felt justified to tell Polish people to eff off home.
The UK wouldn't have wasted billions, more than it ever spent on contrbutions, on trying to achieve Brexit
Britain would still be 4th biggest economy in the world.
Lots of people would still have retained their jobs, some will not be living in fear of losing their jobs in 2021
We wouldn't be inundated with Turks and Albanians (they still can't join).

I'm not saying everything would be great, but they wouldn't be anywhere as bad as they are at the moment - and that is without Covid. I am really interested in what you think the destination is. If we are to trade with the EU we would still have to abide by their standards anyway. And we have said that we would carry on with most of the rules anyway. I still don't get what the benefits will be in 20 years time, I hope there are loads but the likes of Johnson and Cummings and Gove will be long gone by then.

I hope I am wrong and you are right, but we've been sold a pup.
I'll tell you what the destination is.
f**k the EU and thier products.

Let's make them all ourselves.
We got the best minds here.

More British jobs then fro British people.

And if any Johnny foreigners want to come here, they have to pull their weight and contribute not come here to knock babies out and live in a 4 bedroom council house, where our homeless war veterans could be housed.

We have , as a nation, start to make things that we were getting from the EU, cos the high street is going cos everyone buys off Amazon or online,
I couldn't care less if we lost football, and then the people could be put to blame for not purchasing sky tv and illegally streaming football.
Music, movies, pay per view, all will be gone


This island has a great history, let's stop relying on the EU and get off our own arse.


Bloody remainers are a bunch of pussies mun.
Hand outs hand outs hand outs.
 

kiffa

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I'll tell you what the destination is.
f**k the EU and thier products.

Let's make them all ourselves.
We got the best minds here.

More British jobs then fro British people.

And if any Johnny foreigners want to come here, they have to pull their weight and contribute not come here to knock babies out and live in a 4 bedroom council house, where our war veterans could be housed.

We have , as a nation, start to make things that we were getting from the EU, cos the high street is going cos everyone buys off Amazon or online,
I couldn't care less if we lost football, and then the people could be put to blame for not purchasing sky tv and illegally streaming football.


This island has a great history, let's stop relying on the EU and get off our own arse.


Bloody remainers are a bunch of pussies mun.
Hand outs hand outs hand outs.
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