Highest ever number of Welsh people wanting Independence

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My answer is that I don’t know what the economic impacts would be, or how we would overcome them.
I admire your honesty that you have no idea. If only the rest of the intellectuals had your courage to admit they too have no idea.
It’s not English bashing, if anyone’s being bashed it’s Westminster and the Tories.
Westminster is a demonym of the UK government, which by definition is the English parliament. Given the Tories are the fastest growing party in Wales (per the last election), does this mean we (whoever we is in this context is anyone's guess) should declare independence from Wales so we can avoid being lumped with the Tories? Or is it just English Tories we don't like?
 

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Referring to everyone as the "intellectuals" for a start
Just following Arthur's lead that those that don't support independence are brainwashed, the inference being is those that do (support independence) have clarity of thought.
 

kiffa

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Just following Arthur's lead that those that don't support independence are brainwashed, the inference being is those that do (support independence) have clarity of thought.
So being patronising then

Thanks for clearing that up
 

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So being patronising then

Thanks for clearing that up
I'm not being patronising, I'm being sincere. Arthur said it on the internet so it must be true. Do you disagree with him?
 

kiffa

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I'm not being patronising, I'm being sincere. Arthur said it on the internet so it must be true. Do you disagree with him?
No i dont think you are brainwashed

But you are patronising
 

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No i dont think you are brainwashed

But you are patronising
Then if you feel I have patronised you I apologise as that was not my intention (and you were not the target)
 

Arfur Ap Llewellyn Europe

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Just following Arthur's lead that those that don't support independence are brainwashed, the inference being is those that do (support independence) have clarity of thought.
You keep referring to this, yet I made it quite clear I was retracting that terminology, but couldn't think of a different way to describe it.

Would 'assimilated' work better for you?
 

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joking aside you do realise the legal entity is England & Wales, so no, we've not been assimilated into anything as we are part of a greater legal persona
 

Whitts Left Peg

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Arthur earlier mentioned Owain Glyndwr as some sort of poster boy for the Welsh nationalist movement. however, Glyndwr was certainly no Welsh nationalist per se, not in the current sent of the word. Glyndwr's rebellion was no different in nature than Mortimer's or John of Gaunt and was not based on a desire for nationalism but a desire to seek redress from the king for a deal that Glyndwr felt he deserved better. Not all Welshmen followed Glyndwr, and in fact, many Welshmen were with Henry Bollingroke at Agincourt in 1415, a couple of years after Glyndwr's disappearance.

Welsh and English relations go back much further than this. In fact, the Anglo-Saxons were present on these islands prior to the Roman departure in the early 5th century. The Romans initially used the Anglo-Saxons as auxiliaries, and the likes of Vortigern (King of the Britons) invited them to settle in the south in the 5th century. modern thinking is that this was not an invasion, as per the Normans, and the lack of archaeological evidence for battles attests to this theory, but a slow migration to farm the very ample lands that were available. Current thinking is that the Anglo-Saxons become the elite, and therefore their language became the lingua franca much like Latin before it, and similarly how Norman French affected old English to became middle English

From the 5th century onwards petty kingdoms developed all across the islands, creating what was known in England as the heptarchy. Each kingdom would fight amongst themselves, and current DNA analysis indicates that the inhabitants were a mix of Britons and Anglo-Saxons, and not just the latter. The only battle of note between a Brythonic kingdom and an Anglo-Saxon kingdom took place near Chester in or around 615. this split the Brythonic lands in two, cutting off the north from the south. Incidentally, the Brythonic influence in the north is pretty obvious, with Strath(clyde) being cognate with Ystrad, and Cumberland/Cumbria have the same etymology as Cymru. In fact, Cumbric (a variety of Brythonic) was a language spoken in the north until the 13th century.

The general consensus amongst scholars and historians is that the Britons and Anglo-Saxons intermingled and traded with each other quite peacefully, and the only difference between the kingdoms was who the ruling elite were. Quite often Powys and Mercia would join forces and attack Northumberland or Wessex.

The notion that the Anglo-Saxons invaded these islands is false, based on current evidence.

however, 1066 changed everything. The Normans were the invaders, first conquering Saxon England, then Gaelic Ireland, then Scotland and lastly Wales. It was not the Anglo-Saxons that invaded Wales in the same way it was not the Belgians that invaded France or the Danes that invaded Norway in 1940.

One other point, the first invaders of Brythonic lands were the Irish in the 5th century, who invaded the Strathclyde region, setting up the Gaelic kingdom Dal Riata. Ironic that a thousand years later the Scots would go the other way creating the division in Northern Ireland we see today. Despite the Irish being the original aggressors and pretty much wiping out the Welsh of the north, no-one has a bad word to say about them.

The history of Wales and England has always been intertwined, and its only the rise of welsh nationalism in the 20th and 21st century that looks towards revisionism and painting a picture of us Welsh being under the English yoke. This is just not true.
A cut and paste job which Splotty would be proud of.
 

Mushy Peas

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'But how will me mange without England Mammy?' .....Independent not Dependent MUN!!! Like every other Independent country in the world......Wales is very rich!!!! :old:MUN!!!
 

Bud Nippington

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Westminster is a demonym of the UK government, which by definition is the English parliament. Given the Tories are the fastest growing party in Wales (per the last election), does this mean we (whoever we is in this context is anyone's guess) should declare independence from Wales so we can avoid being lumped with the Tories? Or is it just English Tories we don't like?
For somebody who's profession it is to find creative ways to help people swindle the exchequer your steadfast support of them is admirable sir. Bravo.
 
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