Trust losing trust

Enoch Mort

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That's all very interesting, but the point is what mandate did the Trust have in the first place ? Why do they feel that a corporate entity, i.e. the club, is accountable to the Trust ?

I have asked in this thread how many members the Trust has and also for clarification of exactly what its shareholding is and in what.

Can you answer that ?

I think all 92 clubs have a Trust. Here is a link to the government backed formation of Trusts via Supporters Direct (Now replaced by the Football Supporters Association).


I don't think that the Trust think that the Club is accountable to them but the fanbase which was one of the reasons for the formation of Trusts in the first place. The Trust acts on behalf of its members who it communicates with regularly and represents their views. I asked recently about membership and, apparently, there are just under 400. I went to the Trust AGM, I think it was a couple of years ago, and they had ยฃ7k of shares in the Club which have now been written down to zero as a result of Vincent Tan issuing so many shares as a result of his conversions of debt to equity. Even though the value of the shares are zero the Trust are still shareholders and have all the associated rights that go with it.
 

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No I'm not Jimmy. If you follow Wales abroad then you will know me.
I've never met any of the trust members in 50 years of following Cardiff City, home and away. I genuinely have no clue who they are.
From my perspective, the team I followed for 50 years is not what is was but progress EH? I didn't attend one game when Cardiff were in the Premier League for example, I gave my season ticket to the old 1927 club to use. I was working in Ukraine, Tรผrkiye and Bulgaria back then so couldn't attend. It was used well thanks to Glyn, a few pounds donated to charity.
I often watch the local team Cwm Wanderers, guys playing for the love of the game not money, they chip in to play. Keeps the club going and invested into youth teams.
did you meet katarina in bulgaria?
 

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did you meet katarina in bulgaria?
No Katrina lived in Minsk. Natasha in Odessa, Natalia in Kiev, I got them mixed up so got the Spanish Archer. It was Valentina in Bulgaria, she happily married and lives in Varna.
That's only the ladies I loved, I cannot begin to type the names of the ones I really, liked. Hope in Port Harcourt for example, what a lovely lady but too young for me, she was nearly 30 year old :fedup:
 

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If youโ€™ve been following city for 50 years surely you know Tim Hartley, Keith Morgan?
Hartlib yes, Keith, probably.
Our regular fan base is now, 12, 15 thousand? Yet a small group of, 400 "trust members"? Think they speak on behalf of the supporters?
May allah shit upon me, akin to voting for TLG or the odious human excrement factory for Fuhrer of Wales :fedup:
 

Enoch Mort

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Hartlib yes, Keith, probably.
Our regular fan base is now, 12, 15 thousand? Yet a small group of, 400 "trust members"? Think they speak on behalf of the supporters?
May allah shit upon me, akin to voting for TLG or the odious human excrement factory for Fuhrer of Wales :fedup:
I'm a Trust Member and I don't think the Trust professes to speak on behalf of the fanbase as a whole just its membership.
 

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That's all very interesting, but the point is what mandate did the Trust have in the first place ? Why do they feel that a corporate entity, i.e. the club, is accountable to the Trust ?

I have asked in this thread how many members the Trust has and also for clarification of exactly what its shareholding is and in what.

Can you answer that ?
This has always been the one glaring weakness of the Trust.

The Trust represents the interests of the Trust, not the wider fanbase. It pursues lines of questioning, that the majority of fan's show little interest in.

Why should the club's management treat it seriously?
 

BigussDikus

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Well i am a member of the Trust and also a Board member. I run my own coaches to away games and also follow Wales away. I don't tend to advertise that 'hey all i am a Trust member and Board member!' I see no reason to. 50 years following City is the same as me, i reckon there is a very good chance that we know each other:hehe::thumbup:
If you follow Wales away you must have at sometime met Tim Hartley. He is a Trust member, past Chairman even, but again i doubt he advertised it when on Wales trips. There are quite a few others too, but again do not advertise it.
Similar to you i worked away and would let my season ticket out to friends and family, back in the day the Valley Rams office would get it if family could not go. Seems we have a lot in common.
I have to add, i speak to a lot of city fans from a broad walk of life. Both Trust members and non members, around 90% of which have stated they are frustrated with the present situation regarding the Manager's post and moreover the lack of any statement from the Club regarding it. They also support the idea of the Supporter's Trust prompting the club and airing views. I know we are not everyone's cup of tea, but i am of the opinion we do have a lot of support form outside of the Trust membership. It just seems the many that don't like us, or do not support us are vocal on message boards and social media, those that do support us, probably do not use social media or those that do, seem happy to not get in a spat about it.
I know from fans that use my coach(s) to away games that have joined and have applied to join the Trust, they do not have time to attend meetings and get involved, but are more than happy to pay the ยฃ12 per year and support it.
SJB
Sorry Sloop, I may have mixed up Harley with Hartlib?

My best mate runs most of the coaches when Wales play away who you will know, not too difficult to know who I am. We have likely met many times.

The Valley Rams Eh? Those were the days, I don't know why that ended.

I'm just a Cardiff City supporter (or is it fan during these dark times), I don't understand why "Trust" can change or influence anything to with Tan's club. Coach wise, I now live in SA9, 14 miles from the rat hole but a few Bluebirds under cover so if a coach from here for City or Wales games, let me know. Could fill one for Wales home from Ystalyfera, Pontardawe, probably two coaches.
Take care SJB, we are all singing from the same hymn sheet :aya:
 

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This has always been the one glaring weakness of the Trust.

The Trust represents the interests of the Trust, not the wider fanbase. It pursues lines of questioning, that the majority of fan's show little interest in.

Why should the club's management treat it seriously?
The Trust membership is about 3% of season ticket holders, but the club should be receptive to the concerns of all fans. That said, there are ways to make representations and, in my view, an open letter or social media is not appropriate, particularly from a body that has a shareholding in the club.
 

BigussDikus

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The Trust membership is about 3% of season ticket holders, but the club should be receptive to the concerns of all fans. That said, there are ways to make representations and, in my view, an open letter or social media is not appropriate, particularly from a body that has a shareholding in the club.
I once had around 2k shares, 6 or 7 thousand pounds then along came Risdale. I did get my money back from Sam as I think a few others did
 

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The Trust membership is about 3% of season ticket holders, but the club should be receptive to the concerns of all fans. That said, there are ways to make representations and, in my view, an open letter or social media is not appropriate, particularly from a body that has a shareholding in the club.
I completely agree. Do you remember the Trust meeting in City Road? It seemed to have more purpose and clear objective in the early years. But then got bogged down with B/S issues, which the wider fanbase cared very little about.

A whole 3% of the season ticket holders? The management can replace them with discounted walk ups on the day.

The Trust, needed to be able to carry a much larger percentage of the fanbase, as its support. It failed to excite interest from a much broader base of fans. That was disappointing, but the single-minded pursuit of financial questioning, just served to alienate large sections of the fans.
 

BigussDikus

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Cwm?

It's got one fecking street.

An away game for them is one end of the street, against the other.
Oh my lord allah, Dai has got me confused with our Stanty. No virgins in Cwm Dai or Jews. The Ystradgynlias chase the lamb festival coincides with the pride march so kill the jew has been postponed.
 

Enoch Mort

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I completely agree. Do you remember the Trust meeting in City Road? It seemed to have more purpose and clear objective in the early years. But then got bogged down with B/S issues, which the wider fanbase cared very little about.

A whole 3% of the season ticket holders? The management can replace them with discounted walk ups on the day.

The Trust, needed to be able to carry a much larger percentage of the fanbase, as its support. It failed to excite interest from a much broader base of fans. That was disappointing, but the single-minded pursuit of financial questioning, just served to alienate large sections of the fans.
The Club recognises the Supporters Club, the Supporters Trust and the Disabled Supporters Group for consultation purposes and also invites those who run coaches to away games to the Supporters Liaison Meetings. If, say, there are 15000 bums on seats recent City home games then I would guess that only 17% are members of the 3 Supporters Groups. I don't think the City are untypical in terms of these figures. Membership can be higher in clubs where there are specific issues e.g. Oyston at Blackpool, Glazers at Manure or when previous owners at Fulham wanted to sell off Craven Cottage for housing development.

I don't think that, as you say, the Trust has a "single minded pursuit of financial questioning". Whilst it will sort out match day issues for its members it does concern itself with Corporate Governance of the Club which was one of the main reasons for the setting up of Trusts in the first place. The Supporters Club recognise this and, by and large, leave this subject to the Trust. In fact, as part of the Fan Led Review of Football, one recommendation was that Trusts should have a mandated representation on Fans Advisory Boards. Supporters Clubs were not afforded this as it was recognised that some SCs (not ours) are no more than glorified travel agents. (our FAB has 2 CCST members and 4 CCSC members)

I have helped out in the Trust Office and, on many occasions, fans have called in asking about coaches for the next away game. After we have pointed them in the direction of the SC they ask what we actually do and when you tell them about concerns about the way the Club is run or Corporate Governance in general they glaze over and lose complete interest when they are told the Trust do not run coaches to away games. Unfortunately, the umbrella term Corporate Governance , is not sexy and does "fail to excite Interest" as you put it. That is an issue for most Supporters Trusts.
 

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I'm a Trust Member and I don't think the Trust professes to speak on behalf of the fanbase as a whole just its membershi

The Club recognises the Supporters Club, the Supporters Trust and the Disabled Supporters Group for consultation purposes and also invites those who run coaches to away games to the Supporters Liaison Meetings. If, say, there are 15000 bums on seats recent City home games then I would guess that only 17% are members of the 3 Supporters Groups. I don't think the City are untypical in terms of these figures. Membership can be higher in clubs where there are specific issues e.g. Oyston at Blackpool, Glazers at Manure or when previous owners at Fulham wanted to sell off Craven Cottage for housing development.

I don't think that, as you say, the Trust has a "single minded pursuit of financial questioning". Whilst it will sort out match day issues for its members it does concern itself with Corporate Governance of the Club which was one of the main reasons for the setting up of Trusts in the first place. The Supporters Club recognise this and, by and large, leave this subject to the Trust. In fact, as part of the Fan Led Review of Football, one recommendation was that Trusts should have a mandated representation on Fans Advisory Boards. Supporters Clubs were not afforded this as it was recognised that some SCs (not ours) are no more than glorified travel agents. (our FAB has 2 CCST members and 4 CCSC members)

I have helped out in the Trust Office and, on many occasions, fans have called in asking about coaches for the next away game. After we have pointed them in the direction of the SC they ask what we actually do and when you tell them about concerns about the way the Club is run or Corporate Governance in general they glaze over and lose complete interest when they are told the Trust do not run coaches to away games. Unfortunately, the umbrella term Corporate Governance , is not sexy and does "fail to excite Interest" as you put it. That is an issue for most Supporters Trusts.
To my mind the Trust is the best outlet we have. There are articulate and decent people on it who are looking out for the club rather than their own personal agendas imo. Obviously they're not perfect but I think their tone is generally correct.

The questions about it's mandate are of course accurate but it's also naive to expect them to get many more members. I respected the views of the SC but only subscribed as I benefited from an event held by them and thought I'd chuck in the annual subscription to return the favour. Most people just won't pay for a subscription where they essentially get the same service for free as I'm sure @The Colonel will confirm.

I spoke with Keith and he's a tidy bloke. I'd much rather have him speak for the club than some of the self appointed spokespeople that emerged during the embarrassment of the rebrand.
 

BigussDikus

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I do not know the way forward.
I'm not trying to knock anyone who does what they think is best for Cardiff City as at the end of the day that is what all we want.
Corky, for example, what he does for City and Wales supporters/fans. OK he gets most travel, tickets, etc for free but he is always available to assist and help.
Jimmy, I may well have met Keith over the years, I genuinely cannot remember, if he was a "wrong un" I would so for once I agree with all you have typed above.
Football just ain't want it used to be, great the bouncy, bouncy I've been ripped off for a Stone Island coat (or jacket) after sniffing domestos brigade are gone. But so has the atmosphere at grounds , not just our ground, the lack of banter has gone. Another couple of years and will be SUV's in car park*, barby out (not Dai's blow up doll, more Stanty's raw sausages and bacon, although Dai would ban bacon as offensive), a few days before KO. A family day out or is that something folk are not allowed to do?

* Not in Wales though, no cars for anyone, public transport is the way forward there curtesy of the labour wag, think there's two on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, one in the morning and one around 3.30pm. May Allahn bless the wag :fedup:
 

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I do not know the way forward.
I'm not trying to knock anyone who does what they think is best for Cardiff City as at the end of the day that is what all we want.
Corky, for example, what he does for City and Wales supporters/fans. OK he gets most travel, tickets, etc for free but he is always available to assist and help.
Jimmy, I may well have met Keith over the years, I genuinely cannot remember, if he was a "wrong un" I would so for once I agree with all you have typed above.
Football just ain't want it used to be, great the bouncy, bouncy I've been ripped off for a Stone Island coat (or jacket) after sniffing domestos brigade are gone. But so has the atmosphere at grounds , not just our ground, the lack of banter has gone. Another couple of years and will be SUV's in car park*, barby out (not Dai's blow up doll, more Stanty's raw sausages and bacon, although Dai would ban bacon as offensive), a few days before KO. A family day out or is that something folk are not allowed to do?

* Not in Wales though, no cars for anyone, public transport is the way forward there curtesy of the labour wag, think there's two on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, one in the morning and one around 3.30pm. May Allahn bless the wag :fedup:
The atmosphere and chanting is on the wane - all part of the sanitising of football and shifting demographics because of costs. It's not all bad as the hooligans are largely gone but it's rare to have a cracking atmosphere or witty, original chanting these days
 

BigussDikus

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The atmosphere and chanting is on the wane - all part of the sanitising of football and shifting demographics because of costs. It's not all bad as the hooligans are largely gone but it's rare to have a cracking atmosphere or witty, original chanting these days
Many, many years ago I used to mock the older folk with their flask of tea and sandwich box. I doubt Nasher will allow my Flask of tea, prawn, egg, with a slight mix of mayonnaise sandwiches into the mosque. Let alone the AK47 cunningly disguised as a cumber.
I have given up before Cardiff becomes akin to Stripy Nigels at Crystal Palace. Rah, rah, go team go.
Support the local club just by turning up. My local is Cwm Wanderers, no idea what league they're in but a community club. The folk behind make football fun for all. They even had the the mentally challenged (sorry, I can't think of the terminology) playing some games. The smiles on those children's faces enjoying, well, that's what it is all about for me now.
So I'm sorry if I've upset anyone here, apart from Dai, may yer partners be true loves and for me and Stanty, our wank sock.
:fedup:
 

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Many, many years ago I used to mock the older folk with their flask of tea and sandwich box. I doubt Nasher will allow my Flask of tea, prawn, egg, with a slight mix of mayonnaise sandwiches into the mosque. Let alone the AK47 cunningly disguised as a cumber.
I have given up before Cardiff becomes akin to Stripy Nigels at Crystal Palace. Rah, rah, go team go.
Support the local club just by turning up. My local is Cwm Wanderers, no idea what league they're in but a community club. The folk behind make football fun for all. They even had the the mentally challenged (sorry, I can't think of the terminology) playing some games. The smiles on those children's faces enjoying, well, that's what it is all about for me now.
So I'm sorry if I've upset anyone here, apart from Dai, may yer partners be true loves and for me and Stanty, our wank sock.
:fedup:

I'm not upset.

 
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