Football Trust response to FAB meeting minutes.

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The Trust's response, which was sent out to members a few minutes ago, to the FAB meeting minutes;-

"Dear Member

You will have received by now a link to the minutes of the last Fans Advisory Board (FAB) meeting with Club. Normally these meetings take place every 3 months but in the light of our relegation to League 1 and subsequent statements by the Club an urgent FAB meeting was called to discuss the situation. Normally, Steve Borley is the nominated Board representative who attends meetings with the FAB but, given the circumstances, Mehmet Dalman and Ken Choo also attended.

It is worth mentioning from the outset that members of the FAB operate under an agreed Memorandum of Understanding. It is a comprehensive document but one of the strictures imposed on members is that they are not allowed to publicise any of the items discussed until the publication of the agreed minutes. The minutes are taken by a Club Official and submitted to the FAB for their agreement. The minutes are then subject to final approval by the Club and are then made public. It must be noted that the FAB pushed for a prompt production of the minutes by the Club, something that has not been a feature of previous meetings. An undertaking was given that at least a bullet point summary of the meeting would be produced within 48 hours. The minutes were eventually produced on 23 May, some 11 days after the event. Now that the minutes have been made public the Trust Board can take a view of the proceedings and give Trust Members their take on what was said.

Members will recall that, on 29 April, the Club Board released a statement, acknowledging the Public Statement by the Trust on 27 April which raised a number of issues including the lack of specific football expertise at Board level and the strategic decision making process which appears to be solely in the hands of the owner. These are matters that have been brought up by the Trust at meetings with the Chairman and Chief Executive on many occasions and are undoubtedly a major factor in our new situation in League 1.

In their statement of 29 April the Club committed to a “thorough period of review across several structures and practices”. It went on to say that the process would culminate in the appointment of a new manager and management team. We are anxious to understand the extent of this review. It was noticeable that there was no mention of introducing football expertise at Board Level, Director of Football or whatever in the statement and we take the view that this is essential to equip the club to meet the challenges of regaining our place in the Championship and onward.

The meeting of the FAB was the first opportunity since relegation to question the Club on these issues since relegation.

The responses to the questions regarding next season’s strategy and finances were informative and, on the face of it, largely positive. The information about relegation clauses in players’ contracts is something that eases the financial situation now that the worst has happened.

In our view the question of footballing expertise at Board level in connection with the review was not answered as positively as we would have liked. Firstly Mehmet Dalman stated that the Board if Cardiff City is “unique” in that it cannot decide anything significant without reference to the owner. The minutes make it sound as if this uniqueness is a proud boast whereas our view is that it is a major weakness in Corporate Governance of the Club. Mehmet Dalman goes on to say that he would welcome more football expertise but introduced caveats, perhaps to temper expectation. Mehmet Dalman goes on to talk up the football experience of Steve Borley and himself in all the years they have been involved in football. We have no doubt that the empirical knowledge they have gained through years of experience is of great use, but we would need to be persuaded that they have the detailed football expertise to introduce an over arching strategy to revolutionise the way Cardiff City is run from the football point of view.

The Club statement of 29 April referred to the involvement of stakeholders in the review. Well, fans are stakeholders and speaking to our members and other fans groups the need for football expertise at Board level is a widely held view. If, as a result of the review, the question of football expertise is not addressed then fans would need a reasoned justification as to why and not just the fact that the owner feels that he has been taken for a ride, financially, by some previous managers.

In respect of the recruitment process of the new manager, we feel that the appointment of external football expertise to assist is a necessity. On the other hand it is condemnation of the current situation whereby the Board is not sufficiently qualified to make an appointment, unlike other Clubs. That is not a criticism of the Board members but more of the intransigence of the owner.

Our concern is that the experts the Club have employed will produce a short list of potential managers with a recommendation that the owner may ignore for reasons best known to himself.

The question of retaining the current popular Bluebird badge on team shirts was raised. It comes as no surprise that it was confirmed that the current badge was a one off for the 125 season and that the Club Crest would return. Club Crest is an interesting description of the badge. It makes it sound more grandiose than it is. Heraldic it certainly isn’t. Keeping the Bluebird badge would be a small and inexpensive crumb to throw to a disaffected fanbase but no, we get the universally unpopular badge back.

The Trust raised the question in its Public Statement about the absence of the owner at Club games. It was raised again by the FAB and Mehmet Dalman undertook to pass on the request to Vincent Tan. We are not holding our breath but look forward to being surprised.

It is our view that the appointment of the new manager is going to be critical and we would hope that he plus other football experts have a significant input to the review to put us back on the road to where we need to be. However, the inclusion of football expertise at Board level will be at the behest of the owner and it is not easy to be confident that it will happen. Also, whilst intent seems to exist to reform the footballing side of the Club, it is difficult to envisage any changes in respect of Corporate Governance.

There’s not much for Cardiff City fans to be happy about at the moment, but we hope for positive developments whereby the owner will allow the Board the leeway to put in place, in the way the Club is run, the sort of improvements that will take Cardiff City in the right direction. “We hear you” was a sentiment expressed in the end of season Club Statement. Well, it remains to be seen, Vincent Tan having heard us, whether these are empty words.

The Board of Cardiff City Supporters Trust"
 
So essentially plenty of vague words from Mehmet but nothing of substance.

Ultimately the buck stops with Tan and he’s committing to nothing regarding change at the club, despite the statement a few weeks ago.

Nothing will change as long as Tan is here.,
 
So relegation clauses are indeed in contracts like I said regarding the future of Salech.

Mark my words, there's no pay cut relegation clauses, there's a leave for free relegation clause to get high wages off the books.

We'll be in league 1 for some time.
Expect a lot of the bigger "no names" to go soon.
 
So relegation clauses are indeed in contracts like I said regarding the future of Salech.

Mark my words, there's no pay cut relegation clauses, there's a leave for free relegation clause to get high wages off the books.

We'll be in league 1 for some time.
Expect a lot of the bigger "no names" to go soon.
I don't recall seeing anything in the minutes about relegation clauses, I must have missed it.
 
I don't recall seeing anything in the minutes about relegation clauses, I must have missed it.
I think he’s mixed up the official minutes with a bunch of blokes chatting about it on here.

tv shows 90s GIF
 
I think he’s mixed up the official minutes with a bunch of blokes chatting about it on here.

tv shows 90s GIF
It says in the Trust response "The information about relegation clauses in players’ contracts is something that eases the financial situation now that the worst has happened." but I can't remember seeing any info like that when I looked at the minutes the other day.
 
Were they posted here?
 
Turns out there was talk of it in the minutes:

FAB What is the strategy for next season including addressing the balance between reduction
in income and maintaining a competitive squad?
KC We are still in the process of finding the right balance for finance; there will be millions lost
due to relegation, but we believe we can offset most of that loss by reducing the squad size.
There are also relegation clauses in players contracts.
 
That's not what he is talking about :nope:
 
So relegation clauses are indeed in contracts like I said regarding the future of Salech.

Mark my words, there's no pay cut relegation clauses, there's a leave for free relegation clause to get high wages off the books.

We'll be in league 1 for some time.
Expect a lot of the bigger "no names" to go soon.
There will be both and Salech probably won’t have one in his contract. He definitely won’t have a leave for free relegation clause.
 
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There will be both and Salech probably won’t have one in his contract. He definitely won’t have a leave for free relegation clause.
Never leave for free, but the contracts might have financial trigger points that activate if a high enough bid is received.
 
There will be both and Salech probably won’t have one in his contract. He definitely won’t have a leave for free relegation clause.
But Nuge said even though ho is not privy to the highly confidential information
 
I would say that is a reasonable response by the Trust, that would not only reflect its members views but probably those of the majority of fans.
 
Fair comments by the Trust in respect of the various unsatisfactory and/or inconclusive answers given at the meeting.

I note that there were two Trust members present at the meeting, I wonder whether they raised these concerns at the time? There's no sign of that in the minutes, though some things - Dalman laughably equating his/Steve Borley's time spent on the City board to the kind of "footballing" experience we need, for example - really should have been challenged.
 
Fair comments by the Trust in respect of the various unsatisfactory and/or inconclusive answers given at the meeting.

I note that there were two Trust members present at the meeting, I wonder whether they raised these concerns at the time? There's no sign of that in the minutes, though some things - Dalman laughably equating his/Steve Borley's time spent on the City board to the kind of "footballing" experience we need, for example - really should have been challenged.
As a matter of interest how often have and when was the last time City had effective and trustworthy football experience at board level?
 
As a matter of interest how often have and when was the last time City had effective and trustworthy football experience at board level?

Ridsdale had a history at Leeds.
Hammam had a history at Wimbledon.

Hammam brought in Gould as DofF. I know that didn't work out. Hammam also brought in Lennie Lawrence as DofF. In both cases, the DofF's became Managers.

Same with Terry Yorath, I believe, who came in as DofF just before May was sacked. Then Hibbitt was moved upstairs for Osman, only to go back to the dugout when Osman was sacked. Again, the club was owned at that time by the Kumar Brothers who had previously owned Birmingham, so had football backgrounds.

When we were taken over by the ill-fated Cadman consortium, his first decision was to bring in a DofF. I can't remember the bloke's name, but he died shortly into his time here after a hip replacement op.

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It was a relief when that consortium failed. All sorts happening off the pitch, including Wright still effectively owning the club and us getting kicked out of the Welsh Cup for fielding an ineligible player.
 
Ridsdale had a history at Leeds.
Hammam had a history at Wimbledon.

Hammam brought in Gould as DofF. I know that didn't work out. Hammam also brought in Lennie Lawrence as DofF. In both cases, the DofF's became Managers.

Same with Terry Yorath, I believe, who came in as DofF just before May was sacked. Then Hibbitt was moved upstairs for Osman, only to go back to the dugout when Osman was sacked. Again, the club was owned at that time by the Kumar Brothers who had previously owned Birmingham, so had football backgrounds.

When we were taken over by the ill-fated Cadman consortium, his first decision was to bring in a DofF. I can't remember the bloke's name, but he died shortly into his time here after a hip replacement op.
I did specify trustworthy :hehe:

As to the others quoted, they were in the basement where we were for 18 years,.

My point is that, Scam and the Riddler aside, we have never had that level of expertise, certainly that did us any good, even though most of our seasons have been spent in the second tier.
 
I did specify trustworthy :hehe:

As to the others quoted, they were in the basement where we were for 18 years,.

My point is that, Scam and the Riddler aside, we have never had that level of expertise, certainly that did us any good, even though most of our seasons have been spent in the second tier.
Are you suggesting that football knowledge at board level is unnecessary?
 
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