Independence - Significant news?

[NumberAde]

Wales: Devolving justice powers would be calamitous - Buckland

A recent report recommended that Wales takes the reins from Westminster as soon as possible.

www.bbc.co.uk

Probably not hugely significant, but I can't ever remember a Tory minister even talk about independence before.

This comes from a study where there are suggestions that the WAG should have their powers extended to include Justice.

Welsh independence: Leaving UK is viable, says new report

But experts warns Wales would face a "significant" challenge raising enough tax revenue.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think it is a conversation that is worth having. It's expected that Scotland will be independent within the next 10-15 years. The only way to avoid that would be federalism, and I'm not sure what benefits that would bring other than us all being one big happy UK family.

Economic hardship is expected in the short to medium term - apparantly that is a bad thing according to Buckland, but I've not witnessed this country being prosperous in my 46 years here - so what is there to lose? Is it good that the topic has been brought up, and that the WAG have indicated it needs consideration?

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Wales: Devolving justice powers would be calamitous - Buckland

A recent report recommended that Wales takes the reins from Westminster as soon as possible.

www.bbc.co.uk

Probably not hugely significant, but I can't ever remember a Tory minister even talk about independence before.

This comes from a study where there are suggestions that the WAG should have their powers extended to include Justice.

Welsh independence: Leaving UK is viable, says new report

But experts warns Wales would face a "significant" challenge raising enough tax revenue.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think it is a conversation that is worth having. It's expected that Scotland will be independent within the next 10-15 years. The only way to avoid that would be federalism, and I'm not sure what benefits that would bring other than us all being one big happy UK family.

Economic hardship is expected in the short to medium term - apparantly that is a bad thing according to Buckland, but I've not witnessed this country being prosperous in my 46 years here - so what is there to lose? Is it good that the topic has been brought up, and that the WAG have indicated it needs consideration?

“Do we really want to go down the road of 50 years of depopulation, an economy that is stagnating, and a country that frankly would be going backwards not forwards?”

Yeah that would be terrible. Let’s stick in the UK where we’ve had 50 years of booming industry, a flourishing economy and a country that is motoring forwards.

 

[NumberAde]

“Do we really want to go down the road of 50 years of depopulation, an economy that is stagnating, and a country that frankly would be going backwards not forwards?”

Yeah that would be terrible. Let’s stick in the UK where we’ve had 50 years of booming industry, a flourishing economy and a country that is motoring forwards.

How do you think Ireland would look now if it was still under a British flag? I reckon it would look shit. Northern Ireland's economy would improve if they reunited with Ireland.

It would be good to have a debate as a country, rather than just passing it off as impossible.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

How do you think Ireland would look now if it was still under a British flag? I reckon it would look shit. Northern Ireland's economy would improve if they reunited with Ireland.

It would be good to have a debate as a country, rather than just passing it off as impossible.

I just fail to see how things could be any shitter?

For everyone that’s against it my question is this - what would we be losing?

Plus if we had full control of our own affairs then the Labour tosspots would no longer be able to hide behind their get out of blaming Westminster.

 

[Boo]

In principle Im all for independence. In practice, there seem to be so many complications (like Brexit). As you say, until the issue is fully debated we will never know. Nationalists blindly supporting it or Unionists blindly dismissing it is not helpful for those of us undecided or wishing to be convinced either way.

 

[TH63]

In principle Im all for independence. In practice, there seem to be so many complications (like Brexit). As you say, until the issue is fully debated we will never know. Nationalists blindly supporting it or Unionists blindly dismissing it is not helpful for those of us undecided or wishing to be convinced either way.

100% absolutely spot on.

The recent report was the first step in exploring the options and presenting facts for the public to consider. No rhetoric, no lies, no bid red bus, just facts. Facts that would allow people to make informed decisions. All I am asking is that Welsh people are give a say in who governs our country.

 

[Jimmytaff]

100% absolutely spot on.

The recent report was the first step in exploring the options and presenting facts for the public to consider. No rhetoric, no lies, no bid red bus, just facts. Facts that would allow people to make informed decisions. All I am asking is that Welsh people are give a say in who governs our country.

But if there was a referendum there's be loads of rhetoric, lies and massively abused facts. The absence of anything approaching a proper national media would make things very unbalanced too

 

[Dr. Lecter]

But if there was a referendum there's be loads of rhetoric, lies and massively abused facts. The absence of anything approaching a proper national media would make things very unbalanced too

Which is why this matters.

A chance for people to think for themselves and have a grown up conversation about stuff without the bullshitters from both sides chiming in with their propaganda.

We’re a long long way from a referendum. What we need for now is to get people considering how it would or wouldn’t work. If it’s realistic then how will it work? If it’s not then explain sensibly why not?

 

[NumberAde]

But if there was a referendum there's be loads of rhetoric, lies and massively abused facts. The absence of anything approaching a proper national media would make things very unbalanced too

I think that's why it would be good to have a debate without a referendum. Chances are, most people will not take notice, and the chances of us getting independence are higher with a Tory Government than a Labour one. But, any referendum should be more about the merits of an independent country than how we are being shafted by the Tories.

For what it's worth, I think we also get shafted by Labour Governments. Just they use a bit more lube.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I think that's why it would be good to have a debate without a referendum. Chances are, most people will not take notice, and the chances of us getting independence are higher with a Tory Government than a Labour one. But, any referendum should be more about the merits of an independent country than how we are being shafted by the Tories.

For what it's worth, I think we also get shafted by Labour Governments. Just they use a bit more lube.

Great minds Ade.

 

[Jimmytaff]

Which is why this matters.

A chance for people to think for themselves and have a grown up conversation about stuff without the bullshitters from both sides chiming in with their propaganda.

We’re a long long way from a referendum. What we need for now is to get people considering how it would or wouldn’t work. If it’s realistic then how will it work? If it’s not then explain sensibly why not?

People of these isles don't have form for that

 

[Dr. Lecter]

People of these isles don't have form for that

Which is why we need to have a conversation without the bullshit.

Too much of the political argument these days gets hijacked by the social media brigade that occupy either end of the debate. Taking a referendum out of the equation means there’s no reason for them to get involved, which leaves the debate to the sensible but silent majority.

 

[NumberAde]

Great minds Ade.

Socialism will never win an election in the UK. It could win an election here, though. I think we have a choice of a right-wing Government or a central left but moving ever so more to the right opposition at UK level.

If the SNP put a candidate up in Blaenau Gwent, I'd have voted for them in 2015 and 2017. But, they have also been caught with their snouts in the trough.

I think this country could be vibrant, great for tourism, high class education, lower the business rates to get companies into the country and bring in jobs. It needs new, fresh thinking, and unlike the English (although we are starting to get their disease) we don't hate everyone and everything.

We'd be the loveliest country in the world. The only people who don't like us are the English - that's why they keep running us down. I reckon we can do it, but it needs a grown-up discussion long before any referendum happens. Maybe, if there was a referendum, we would get more respect from Westminster. Aren't we about to lose 8 out of our 40 MPs with the boundary changes?

Something has to change. The cycle of losing industries and replacing them with empty factory units, like a form of Chinese Water Torture, is pissing me off.

 

[kernel]

I'd never vote for independence, there's no way I want Drakeford in charge of the country

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I'd never vote for independence, there's no way I want Drakeford in charge of the country

The sad part is that’s exactly what plenty of people would say if you asked them.,

Personally I think we should have mandatory IQ tests to decide voting eligibility. Anyone that laughs at Mrs Brown’s Boys should be automatically banned from voting. Ditto every member of Annis’s forum.

 

[TH63]

The sad part is that’s exactly what plenty of people would say if you asked them.,

Personally I think we should have mandatory IQ tests to decide voting eligibility. Anyone that laughs at Mrs Brown’s Boys should be automatically banned from voting. Ditto every member of Annis’s forum.

Add taxi drivers and dodgy carpenters to the list as well

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Add taxi drivers and dodgy carpenters to the list as well

Already covered gumbo - he’s the target audience for Mrs Brown.

Not so much Dai - his type of comedy is weird you tube videos.

 

[TH63]

Already covered gumbo - he’s the target audience for Mrs Brown.

Not so much Dai - his type of comedy is weird you tube videos.

The grown ups seem to have agreed on fact based evidence provided by respected academics.
As such lies, tik-tok videos, tweets and YouTube are similarly surplus to requirements

 

[Arfur Ap Llewellyn Europe]

Wales: Devolving justice powers would be calamitous - Buckland

A recent report recommended that Wales takes the reins from Westminster as soon as possible.

www.bbc.co.uk

Probably not hugely significant, but I can't ever remember a Tory minister even talk about independence before.

This comes from a study where there are suggestions that the WAG should have their powers extended to include Justice.

Welsh independence: Leaving UK is viable, says new report

But experts warns Wales would face a "significant" challenge raising enough tax revenue.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think it is a conversation that is worth having. It's expected that Scotland will be independent within the next 10-15 years. The only way to avoid that would be federalism, and I'm not sure what benefits that would bring other than us all being one big happy UK family.

Economic hardship is expected in the short to medium term - apparantly that is a bad thing according to Buckland, but I've not witnessed this country being prosperous in my 46 years here - so what is there to lose? Is it good that the topic has been brought up, and that the WAG have indicated it needs consideration?

Imagine if Cymru had been independent from the start?

We'd be as wealthy as the Saudis from coal and water alone.

We would all be living like lords, owning all the biggest sporting teams in the world, launching new golf unions, hosting the biggest boxing fights and buying up half of Mayfair and Belgravia, along with critical English infrastructure such as Heathrow.

But no. That cash has long gone, stolen from us sadly.

And we get pennies back. Yet a a fair few on here seem happy with that



But no matter. The criminal past doesn't have to dictate the future potential



Annibyniaeth i Gymru

 

[Arfur Ap Llewellyn Europe]

Ps what happens to people such as Fuckland and Ian Hislop (and @Worse and @Nugent) in their lives that turns them into such haters of the country that either birthed them or brought them up?

They must have family and connections still here. It's fucking weird if you ask me.

Does this phenomenon happen anywhere else in the world I wonder?

All lilly livered, spineless wankers, except at least Fuckland and Hislop have actually moved there.

And stayed there